There’s no question: players don’t know the rules very well.
What do you see in this video?
What responsibility does the umpire have to “protect” base runners? Should he have called ‘Time’ to keep R3 from walking off the bag? Do you like the mechanic that U3 used in pointing at the runners?
Was the runner out of the baseline? Would that have changed this play?
Is there anything else in this play that you would change?
he got the call wrong on the sliding back in but other than that everything was right. He shouldn’t have called time, that would’ve awarded the offence when they made a bad play.
“What do you see in this video?”
I see a mess, and an offense that clearly doesn’t know the ‘situation’ to prevent themselves from getting into a double play.
I see U3 missing a swipe tag on the runner which contributed to a double play situation.
“What responsibility does the umpire have to “protect” base runners?”
The umpire doesn’t have any responsibility to protect base runners. The responsibility of the base runners is themselves and their coaching staff.
“Should he have called ‘Time’ to keep R3 from walking off the bag?”
No, the umpire does not have a responsibility to call ‘Time’. The runner releasing 3B is part of continuous action and the fielder alertly applied the tag properly.
“Do you like the mechanic that U3 used in pointing at the runners?”
Yes as it clearly articulates who is ‘out’ and who isn’t in this situation. I also utilize a verbal cue with that ‘Trailing runner is out on the tag!’ or ‘You are out on the tag!’
“Was the runner out of the baseline? Would that have changed this play?”
No, the runner is not out of the baseline. The runner is, properly, avoiding a fielder who is attempting to retrieve a thrown ball and who does not have possession of the ball nor is waiting to make a tag.
If the runner was ruled out of the baseline, then yes, that would have vacated 3B for the purposes of the trailing runner to then occupy it. In the video, the tag was applied to the trailing runner after the runner had reached 3B.
“Is there anything else in this play that you would change?”
I would have preferred that U3 take two steps toward the line on the rundown due to the obvious swipe attempt and I believe he would have seen the tag. Likewise, I would have preferred that he stop moving in the beginning of the play and then make a single adjustment (had he been where I suggested, I think he may not have needed the adjustment on the tag of the trailing runner).
R3 is out for being out of the baseline. The fielder extended his glove hand, and the runner tried to avoid the tag. That’s more than 3 feet..read the rule book. Call the runner out immediately and this would have avoided all of the confusion. We talked about an identical play at Pro Camp in Atlanta last January and all 3 MLB umpires said, “call the runner out!”
At :09 in the video, the runner is almost on top of the fielder who is in the process of catching a thrown ball on the foul line and well in front of the base, preventing the fielder from dropping down to get to the base.
R3 moves a step and a half to his left to avoid the fielder, who almost simultaneously fields the ball and moves to tag. The key to this, in my opinion, is that the runner was already at the fielder who was tagging across his body (which is not three feet, incidentally) and hadn’t even fully extended yet before the runner was past him. The timing of this, in my review, doesn’t warrant an OOTB.
Also, you’ll note that I think he had him in my previous post, so OOTB wouldn’t even factor in, but for the purposes of discussion…
Since you suggested that I read the rule – here’s the actual rule from OBR:
7.08
Any runner is out when —
(a) (1) He runs more than three feet away from his baseline to avoid being tagged unless his action is to avoid interference with a fielder fielding a batted ball. A runners baseline is established when the tag attempt occurs and is a straight line from the runner to the base he is attempting to reach safely; or (2) after touching first base, he leaves the baseline, obviously abandoning his effort to touch the next base;
The key here is ‘tag attempt occurs’. The runner was even with and already starting past the fielder ‘when the tag attempt occurs’ so, again, I don’t have OOTB here as the baseline was established at the tag attempt point and then there is three feet to go.
Again, not being a Pro umpire or having gone to Pro school, I could very well be wrong, but that’s how I saw it.
I reviewed this with a former MiLB/MLB umpire and he indicated that the runner was, in fact, out of the baseline and that I was incorrect from an OOTB perspective(although very detailed in my reasoning).
He also felt that the umpire was too focused on the tag, and not focused enough on the step and reach.
So, I stand corrected.
Thanks.
Im going to say no on the OOTB. As a matter of fact, I dont have any problem with what the umpire did. We didnt have a “tag-tag” situation where both runners were tagged at the same time so pointing was good enough for me. R3, or more likely 3BC, needs to know the situation and not let R3 take his hand off the bag.
If anything I might have obstruction on F5. If this is FED he didn’t have the ball yet when the runner tried to get passed him.
No out of the base line on this.
I like the Pointing to the runner. It makes it clear as to who is out.
No responsibility to protect any runners.
NFHS-If you call that obstruction, you’ll call it on ANY rundown because the nature of a rundown requires that 2 defensive players are in the lane with the runner stranded. Inherently, you always have a player in the running lane without the ball. That is not the intent of the defensive obstruction rule.
R3 is so far outside the baseline that he can’t reach the bag…he’s out. I agree with the poster who said U3 needs to get still and see the play. He almost hustled himself out of the play.
I respectfully disagree with your NFHS comment about Obstruction on every rundown.
Definitely OOTB. Fielder takes a step and a reach (which is far more than 3 feet) and still can’t touch the runner. His arm plus mit length is at least 3 feet long – get this out.
Dave Ducat says, “I see U3 missing a swipe tag on the runner…”
Really? You can be that sure there was a tag based on this video? I sure can’t say it definitively, and the 3B seemed to think he missed it, since he continued to try to make the tag all the way back to the base.
Not sure U3 moving a couple of steps would help on a tag that — if it was made at all — was made on the runner’s backside, opposite U3.
I don’t have a problem with U3′s handling of the situation. Not his job to save the baserunner from himself.
Yup, really, in my opinion. Doesn’t mean it’s right, but it’s my opinion. 3B reacted to a no call, that doesn’t mean he necessarily thinks he missed it, it means he’s a heads-up player who continues the play.
However, taking my opinion out of it, U3 has no chance to see the swipe opportunity because he’s basically straight-lined to the play. Freezing the video at :09-:10, it’s clear that regardless of whether there was a true tag or not, U3 doesn’t see it and isn’t going to see it.
I have no problem with U3 starting here, because, as in a 3-man crew, he should be there. However, as the play developed, I suggested he take a better angle on the possible swipe by moving toward the line to get a better angle on the play coming in.
This has got to be a 3 man crew, so U3 is where he’s supposed to be. No OOB. Seems to me he had a reasonable view of the tag/no tag – even in slow-mo I’m not sure the tag was applied. Otherwise, everything was spiffy.
Lots going on in this play!
First, the runner is not out for being out of the baseline. He is already a ways away from the fielder by the time the tag attempt is made.
In NFHS, I think we have to call obstruction here. Fed rules and caseplays are very clear that if a fielder without the ball impedes a runner, obstruction should be called. I don’t like it but there’s not much choice there.
The U3′s mechanics were appropriate and he clearly indicates who is out. The R3 made a boneheaded move of taking his hand off of the bag.
Great comment!!!
First who did the umpire call out first? Secondly There was no out of baseline he avoided the fielder trying to catch the ball. The lead runner has a right to go back to the bag so if R3 and R2 were both at the bag in which they were R2 should have been tagged and called out which I did not see R2 tagged which means he should have ran back to 2nd. I don’t believe R3 was called out initially until he took his hand off the bag. But like I said I can’t tell who the umpire called out.